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16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 5:31:42 PM UTC
Yikes, some people must not have read the updated descriptions. Does that total include the 50 euro "bidder's registration" fees collected?
16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 9:20:36 PM UTC

Urulókë wrote:
Yikes, some people must not have read the updated descriptions. Does that total include the 50 euro "bidder's registration" fees collected?

Yes, I think it does, you had to pay €50 to place bids, but that came off the winning price, so all the other idiots bidders also paid €50 for a book probably worth less than €50 as it is not a good copy of the edition. I would not be surprised if they did not get €500 or more from potential buyers registering.
16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 10:09:25 PM UTC

Jlong wrote:
"Is this still the case when the original recipient of the letter still owns it?"

The Tolkien Estate owns the rights to anything he wrote, regardless of who possesses the letter.

I'm not sure how enforceable this would be, realistically. People publicly disclose the contents of letters written to them all the time (in legal disputes, for example), and they are not opening themselves up to legal proceedings by doing so. That said, the legal system favours the rich, so I have no doubt that the Tolkien Estate get their own way in most matters.
16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 10:11:01 PM UTC

Trotter wrote:

Urulókë wrote:
Yikes, some people must not have read the updated descriptions. Does that total include the 50 euro "bidder's registration" fees collected?

Yes, I think it does, you had to pay €50 to place bids, but that came off the winning price, so all the other idiots bidders also paid €50 for a book probably worth less than €50 as it is not a good copy of the edition. I would not be surprised if they did not get €500 or more from potential buyers registering.

The buyer would have a good case for a refund. The seller repeatedly misrepresented the item during the pre-sales process.
16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 10:25:09 PM UTC
Ok, based on their Facebook page the final bid was for 1150 Euros. Does not include any fees (see next paragraph).

Also careful reading of the auction description page shows that the 50 Euro fee was for membership to the week-long festival, so you got other benefits besides being able to bid, so I was wrong to call it just a "bidder registration fee".

Given that this was a charity auction I am hoping beyond hope that the winner was bidding the charity, not the book.

"Proceeds from the auction will go to local charities."
16 May, 2013
2013-5-16 10:33:40 PM UTC

Stu wrote:

Jlong wrote:
"Is this still the case when the original recipient of the letter still owns it?"

The Tolkien Estate owns the rights to anything he wrote, regardless of who possesses the letter.

I'm not sure how enforceable this would be, realistically. People publicly disclose the contents of letters written to them all the time (in legal disputes, for example), and they are not opening themselves up to legal proceedings by doing so. That said, the legal system favours the rich, so I have no doubt that the Tolkien Estate get their own way in most matters.

In English law there is a thing called "fair dealing" which means you can use copyright work without permission in certain circumstances. These are not explicitly defined but include quoting from works for the purposes of criticism or disclosing the contents of a letter in a legal dispute. In effect that means, as Stu says, that if you are rich enough you can pretty much prevent most (but not all) publication of letters.
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