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16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 6:52:41 PM UTC
I'm sad that since the fake signatures somehow everything is being questioned. This person was 100% certain commissioned to demolish Tolkien's house and 100% certainly is selling the fireplace that was ordered by Tolkien according to his own wishes. The seller has been in & out of Miramar hotel and there has been speaking with members of the Tolkien family. The offer was indeed made and so far not accepted (because I do have another buyer interested in the lot, but in talks). Why always is it needed to be so negative when it comes to large amounts?
Why doubt the provenance, while all items have been in and out the news before several times. Anyways, I'm going to stop posting on this thread for the time being.
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 8:54:41 PM UTC
Beren, I might be wrong here --but my guess is that most book collectors (& there is much to criticise in collecting books) find it a step too far (if that's the right expression) to start coveting items that Tolkien once owned, particularly those which have very little to do with what we all admire him for; namely his writing. Personally, I can see the appeal of a item with clear association e.g. a desk --but not a fireplace.

That accounts for some of the hostility &/or criticism --the rest, I guess, is just anger at the "market" aspect of collecting (even though individual collectors can also benefit from this market) i.e. the shameless promotion of items, to the point of skewing the facts (& sometimes inventing them) for personal financial gain. Probably not the case here (as you point out), but you don't need to look far to see examples of this. It also accounts for some of the hostility towards Jackson films.

BH
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 9:04:51 PM UTC
Forgot to add, in respect to this particular item --why is the Lin Carter story still being peddled (on this very forum by Enotsnekra), when from the very start this was thought to be false? i.e. it's not Carter's handwriting. That was four years ago now, yet the story seems to have stuck.

BH
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 9:41:28 PM UTC
"This person was 100% certain commissioned to demolish Tolkien's house."

Let's make it clear that the contractor was not commissioned to demolish Tolkien's house. The Tolkiens had not lived there for the best part of half a century. We are still not being offered any evidence that these items were on the premises when the Tolkiens lived there.

I know what Tolkien's address was in Poole - he used the house number and street name. I've looked in all the usual references and there's nothing to say that 'Tolkien called his house Woodridings'.

I don't like it when folk try and tell me they've got information that the rest of us don't have, and won't say where they've got it. Especially when the reason for doing so is to make money.
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 9:45:23 PM UTC
I am sure most of us starting out collecting books but I bet we all have some other collectible item- whether it be a letter, artwork or maybe even Tolkiens typewriter

Personally I have no problem with that and if you have a desire to own Tolkiens old fireplace then so be it. I havent got a problem with the seller 'having a go' at selling at what most would deem a ridiculous price and in the current market good luck to him if someone is daft enough to pay that sort of amount.

What I do question is the way which it is done. Looking at it from the sidewalk he is selling something worth (alledgedly) £50k plus. He then posts details of an offer in open view even quoting a name albeit a forename only! I agree with Khamul why would he do this? It isnt good business practice in anyones book.

Add to this he then posts on this site an item he is in fact selling! This isnt just a Lucky find it is in fact advertising for him isnt it?

Then once done he doesnt answer the responses ? In this I am not doubting the items came from where they are alledged to do so - but wouldnt you want to respond and answer your critics? Maybe we need to give him time but i have a feeling no reply will be received.
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 10:13:21 PM UTC
I agree with you both. Bearing all this in mind, why on earth would you part with this kind of money, and hand it to someone who is still claiming that rubbish about Lin Carter, when Beren (& Deagol) himself thought this was a false claim back in 2008 (--without even having seen the postcard)? It needs to be far, far more professional than this.

BH
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 10:44:22 PM UTC
I agree on most of the posts here! Thanks guys... I'm happy with criticism on the manner of selling, on all other items as well (I don't care about the garden decoration or woodridings sign - wished he did not sell those - I can't find any evidence for them being Tolkien's), but in my research I know this is the fireplace that Tolkien did commission and was made like this (this design) on his request. Any Adam Style fireplace in this condition and material is worth on the current market around 35 to 40K. Sticking the name Tolkien on it may indeed add some value... for example some books I own are worth around 3K, but since they are from Tolkien's personal library they sell easily at double their value.

If you want I have located many other pieces from the house (like chairs, tables, closets,... ) - and these can probably be bought as well at the right price. But they are in hands from people who knew Tolkien and lived close to him. Talking with them I know much that was and was not... it is fun to research stuff like this. Many speculations and many stories (some sound logic others take on fairy status). I don't want to discuss stuff like this, if I ever get round to finishing on studying the topic of the house I will tell all about it, but for now it is just a fun project.
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 11:41:28 PM UTC
Beren, no - I do not want to buy tables, chairs etc which you say come from 'Tolkien's house'. At the risk of sounding like a broken record - Tolkien moved from Poole in March 1972. In your sales pitch on Tolkien Library you say

"In September 2007 the current owner sold of some of the Tolkien points from Woodridings. The sale had been announced in the newspaper and some were lucky to see the house from the inside and buy some of Tolkien's furniture."

Tolkien's furniture was not in the house in 2007. He'd moved 35 years previously!
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 11:51:10 PM UTC
aha! and that is what I mean... I am not interested in the furniture either that was in the house after Tolkien left either! Since that is not interesting to study at all indeed. Anyways, enough about that. If you wish just talk about the fireplace or the hobbit movie // rest is of no use indeed.
16 Dec, 2012
2012-12-16 11:59:51 PM UTC
No, I don't want to talk about the movie... (Honestly, you're being so evasive - this is like trying to knit fog). Let's do it this way. You wrote:

"If you want I have located many other pieces from the house (like chairs, tables, closets,... ) - and these can probably be bought as well at the right price."

Could you tell us more about these items? Please?
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