Tolkien Collector's Guide
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Jan 13
2021/1/13 11:13:03 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

PanSam wrote:

I already see the difference since the 1st january, the import fees are huge but if you do business with an individual you can bypass the tax by asking the seller to send you the package, specifying that it is a gift. Here is some explanation from the uk gouv.

Gifts

To qualify as gifts, goods must be:

described as gifts on the customs declaration for a birthday, anniversary or other occasion bought and sent between individuals (not companies)intended for personal use.

I'm assuming pre-Brexit you didn't notice fees as this was covered by the Canada-EU trade agreement? However, logically, you would have noticed these fees had you bought from some other non-EU country that you had no trade deal with. I assume. Maybe that's not that many countries, or not many countries you'd ever have bought books from. But those rules & taxes were presumably always there.

I'd be wary about the "gift" exemptions. It's always an option. But these are put in place to lower the burden on customs checking all these small transactions that are really of no value vs. labour involved in enforcing. I'm not sure how much they can be relied upon if you're buying mainly from businessess and "sellers".

As I said previously, this is all about how the country you reside in views the UK in terms of trade and taxes. Just remember that VAT or equivalent is not included in book prices you see advertised in the UK (that you pay) as VAT is not applicable to books. No clue what the laws are in regard to secondhand goods generally. Governments don't seem to have a problem charging taxes multiple times on the same items. VAT is, after all, in part, a kind of transaction tax.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 11:36:39 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Khamûl wrote:



I'm assuming pre-Brexit you didn't notice fees as this was covered by the Canada-EU trade agreement? However, logically, you would have noticed these fees had you bought from some other non-EU country that you had no trade deal with. I assume. Maybe that's not that many countries, or not many countries you'd ever have bought books from. But those rules & taxes were presumably always there.

I'd be wary about the "gift" exemptions. It's always an option. But these are put in place to lower the burden on customs checking all these small transactions that are really of no value vs. labour involved in enforcing. I'm not sure how much they can be relied upon if you're buying mainly from businessess and "sellers".

As I said previously, this is all about how the country you reside in views the UK in terms of trade and taxes. Just remember that VAT or equivalent is not included in book prices you see advertised in the UK (that you pay) as VAT is not applicable to books. No clue what the laws are in regard to secondhand goods generally. Governments don't seem to have a problem charging taxes multiple times on the same items. VAT is, after all, in part, a kind of transaction tax.

I fully understand, I buy regularly in the United States, Australia and various countries of the European Union and yes indeed there are taxes and import fees, which are yes or not included in the transaction depending on the type of seller. here my example concerns exclusively the private sellers who according to your agreement, can note your transaction as a gift, taking the trouble to readjust the value ... the customs officers are not experts in old books (by experience my sister worked there for 15 years) so yes, it is not a certainty that I am going ahead but for 30 years that I have been buying books from different parts of the world, it has always worked well.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 11:57:22 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
That quote from the UK .gov site is referring to UK buyers buying from abroad though, is it not? That's not applicable to you buying from the UK. Maybe I'm not understanding, but it doesn't matter what the UK government says if you're not from the UK. It's what the Canadian, or French, or German government say about you importing books to your country. The UK and Canada... don't have an agreement, do we?
Jan 13
2021/1/13 12:14:18 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Urulókë wrote:

Not sure if this needs a separate topic (probably), but thought I would put these sorts of bits of news here for the time being.

The bookseller Waterstones has [...] suspended sales to customers in EU countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... ts-over-brexit-smallprint

Sorry, only just read the article. Interesting quote:

Under the agreement, if more than 40% of the pre-finished value of a UK firm’s product was not British, it would attract tariffs.

I wonder, hypothetically, if this means that a book printed & bound in China for example, but sold by HarperCollins in the UK, would be subject to tariffs to European buyers? Seems unlikely, but not impossible. Someone like Rene over at The Tolkien Shop would probably have some good insight into this; being a European book dealer specialising in selling a UK published author. His business literally hangs on this trade.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 13:07:57 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Khamûl wrote:

That quote from the UK .gov site is referring to UK buyers buying from abroad though, is it not? That's not applicable to you buying from the UK. Maybe I'm not understanding, but it doesn't matter what the UK government says if you're not from the UK. It's what the Canadian, or French, or German government say about you importing books to your country. The UK and Canada... don't have an agreement, do we?
If we are talking about transactions exclusively between Canada and the UK, yes.
Canada-United Kingdom Business Continuity Agreement (Canada-United Kingdom)
Jan 13
2021/1/13 13:25:54 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
I am not sure I understand how and why Max has had to pay such a premium. Is that to do with Italy and its tax laws rather than the UK? I looked at the same book from Amazon UK who take the import at checkout and the totals are poles apart. If I order an item to my German address with a German card I see a total not much different to before Brexit. €7 more on a €70 sale.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 13:51:18 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

PanSam wrote:

Khamûl wrote:

That quote from the UK .gov site is referring to UK buyers buying from abroad though, is it not? That's not applicable to you buying from the UK. Maybe I'm not understanding, but it doesn't matter what the UK government says if you're not from the UK. It's what the Canadian, or French, or German government say about you importing books to your country. The UK and Canada... don't have an agreement, do we?
If we are talking about transactions exclusively between Canada and the UK, yes.
Canada-United Kingdom Business Continuity Agreement (Canada-United Kingdom)

Ah, got you. Didn't think that was a real thing yet.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 15:38:30 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

onthetrail wrote:

I am not sure I understand how and why Max has had to pay such a premium. Is that to do with Italy and its tax laws rather than the UK? I looked at the same book from Amazon UK who take the import at checkout and the totals are poles apart. If I order an item to my German address with a German card I see a total not much different to before Brexit. €7 more on a €70 sale.

Took a closer look at the invoice included in the book. Here it is:

Book+shipping= 73,96€
VAT (In Italy it's 22%) = 16,27€
Administrative Expenses for duties payed in advance (by DHL) = 16,47€ (!?!)

What? Did I pay 16,47€ so they could pay those 16,27€ for VAT in advance?

I just wrote DHL for clarification on that line of the invoice.
Jan 13
2021/1/13 15:43:17 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
It's absolutely real 😉, I have two places where I bring books, in France and Canada, it is true that the costs of customs clearance to France are sometimes quite expensive, obviously all this depends on the amount of the book but trading with UK will be impacted in some way
Jan 13
2021/1/13 15:44:16 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Max wrote:

onthetrail wrote:

I am not sure I understand how and why Max has had to pay such a premium. Is that to do with Italy and its tax laws rather than the UK? I looked at the same book from Amazon UK who take the import at checkout and the totals are poles apart. If I order an item to my German address with a German card I see a total not much different to before Brexit. €7 more on a €70 sale.

Took a closer look at the invoice included in the book. Here it is:

Book+shipping= 73,96€
VAT (In Italy it's 22%) = 16,27€
Administrative Expenses for duties payed in advance (by DHL) = 16,47€ (!?!)

What? Did I pay 16,47€ so they could pay those 16,27€ for VAT in advance?

I just wrote DHL for clarification on that line of the invoice.

So do you pay VAT on books in Italy? If so, then this would seem correct. And, yes, you are being penalised for customs/DHL/whoever having to process this rather than the seller. As I said, in the UK they charge £10 simply to administer these processess, so that charge doesn't look particularly unusual.

Should everyone in the EU not be subject to the same EU-UK ageement though, that's the question?
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