Tolkien Collector's Guide
The Wonders of...
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By garm

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 4, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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I'm not sure what to make of this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1934-Pentat ... ks_UK&hash=item3a7d3c59db

- is this supposed to be inscribed by Tolkien or not? What is meant by ' DTS 74' etc?



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Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 4, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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The seller is claiming a tentative and unproven friendship with Tolkien as far as I can see, "1934 Pentateuchus of Henry St John Hart, JRR Tolkien's Friend and Contemporary"

So no real connection that I can see, or any connection at all.


By Deagol

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 5, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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Readers of Vinyar Tengwar will know of the connexion as Henry St John Hart is mentioned in VT49 in an article on Elvish inscriptions.

The DTS numbers are references to Mellonath Daeron Index of Tengwa Specimina:

http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/mdtci.html
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Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 5, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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Deagol,

Thanks for the correction and clarification.

Trotter


By garm

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 5, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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Thanks, Deagol. So, reading the seller's spiel again, with information from the page you supplied a link to - we can say that this item once belonged to a friend of Tolkien's, but the item itself has no connection whatsoever with JRR.

Now, I got confused whilst reading this sales description. I often wonder, when seeing convoluted pieces of writing such as this, how folk manage who do not have English as a first language. To take a wildly different example - there are folk (native English speakers among them) who are convinced that Lewis and Lacon's 'Fall of Gondolin'' has approval from the Estate. Largely because of wooly descriptions such as we have here.
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Re: The Wonders of eBay

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It wasn't approved then? How were they allowed to publish it?

BH
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By garm

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 5, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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It was self-published. I don't want to go into all the ins and outs of it, but the Estate's position on this sort of thing is made clear in the FAQ section of their website -

"Can I / someone else write / complete / develop my / their own version of one of these unfinished tales ? (or any others)
The simple answer is NO.
You are of course free to do whatever you like for your own private enjoyment, but there is no question of any commercial exploitation of this form of "fan-fiction".
Also, in these days of the Internet, and privately produced collectors’ items for sale on eBay, we must make it as clear as possible that the Tolkien Estate never has, and never will authorize the commercialisation or distribution of any works of this type."
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Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 6, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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I understand that garm --but they sold them, did they not? i.e. privately printed or not. I always thought that was the line not to cross --write it if you want; even publish it; just don't sell it.

BH
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By Beren

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 6, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace
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Well they were allowed to be produced and were allowed to be sold by The Tolkien Estate... not only one time time but two times. Also they were being sold to people from the Tolkien Society and even better all profits were used to give a present to Christopher Tolkien, who also accepted a copy (think also Priscilla but not certain - writing out of memory here). I still have the small three booklets of the first publication and the later one single volume.

Not all copies sold, or were bound, so one day one clever bookseller saw a chance to bind them and sell them. This was however stopped by the Tolkien Estate, since indeed he did not have a permission to do so. It is a good thing that they can allow and can stop things to happen. But it is unfair to say that there was no permission to produce or sell the book when there was indeed permission to do so... just because of what happened many many years later. Please inform yourselves a little. The ins and outs are quit important especially when speaking about people who are around and did so much for the Tolkien fan community and society.
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By garm

Re: The Wonders of eBay

Jan 6, 2013 - in Collector's Marketplace (edited)
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Beren - I am informed; better than you know, or imply. Giving a book to Priscilla does not amount to approval of the text, nor obtaining permission to sell. There is all the difference between asking permission of a copyright holder - in this case, the Estate - and presenting it as a fait complit.

I'm not prepared to be lectured by someone who has shown poor judgement in the past, both on these boards
(the 'Dr. Higgins' affair, to give one example) - and on your own website; where recently you published an article containing text and images of some of Tolkien's unpublished writings without seeking permission.
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