That's a tough break for David Miller, but it's good to see he is doing absolutely the right thing and taking these off the market (not that I would have expected any different - I bought a book off him a couple of years ago and he seemed like a nice bloke).

I guess one of the problems with the trading of signatures/autographs is that they really are so fakable. Not necessarily easily faked well, but it's far from impossible to do so. I think what is really odd about these items is that the signatures were done relatively well, but the typing and transcription (from the original sources) were done so poorly. I almost think that it was a double-bluff on the part of the forger.

I often wonder what the percentage of real signatures versus fakes are out there, and I've come to the conclusion that it probably isn't nearly as low as we would like it to be.

So I guess I'll be sticking to my unsigned books!

If Bloomsbury has, in fact, withdrawn the letter, why is it still listed on eBay: http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/e ... ewitem=&item=170269890214

It is good to hear that David Miller pulled those other items; it is unfortunate that he purchased them, nonetheless.

Josh

Bloomsbury have stated that they can't cancel the Ebay auction or remove the entry from there web site, for 'technical reasons' but it will register as not being sold.

For completeness I have checked Bloomsbury's website

246. Tolkien (J.R.R., author and philologist … Typed Letter signed to a female ?member of … (details)
estimate: £300 – £400

unsold

The Bloomsbury listing on eBay shows that the auction ended with a bid of GBP150, but 0 bidders and 0 bids. It's a poor system that can't, for technological reasons, withdraw an item before the sale, or at least add a note stating that there are questions of authenticity. Since this piece no doubt will endure in Web archives, one can only hope that future researchers also come across our exchange about it.

Wayne

I entirely agree. Nearly every time the question of fake signatures comes up on this board, Ebay's failings are discussed.

The terrible forgery that Rown's spotted earlier in this thread sold, even though I reported it as a fake (Ebay ignore this) and we now find that live auctions can not be removed once listed.

I wonder if the Tolkien Estate could get Ebay to remove counterfeit signatures quickly when reported, using the Ebay Vero program, as we know that Christopher Tolkien resents the sale of these items. I hope that they have trademarked his signature as well.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/T ... acy-on-the-Web-64778.html

They have indeed trademarked his signature, though I do not know off the top of my head in which jurisdictions.

On the other hand a lot of signed books are being sold, and Christopher Tolkien himself has signed several limited editions, and added a lot of extra value to these books by doing so. So, since I guess he was payd to sign these copies, he actually sort of agreed business in autographs by signing the limited editions.

Registering the signature as a trade-mark more or less requires the intention to trade under it.

And it does not give one the right to stop trade in signed items - provided the items are genuine. But one could certainly regard offering counterfeit signatures for sale as a breach of trade-mark, and the Estate might use this as a legal tool to counteract such trade.

Christopher Tolkien's views on the matter of fake signatures (in regard to CoH) being sold on eBay, came to light recently in Jason Fisher's blog; in which he quoted from a letter from CT to Carl Hostetter. I believe the cops and villains were involved; & the Estates myriad eyes...

BH