Tolkien Collector's Guide
Dummy SILMARILLION variations...
(1) 2

Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Oct 28, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
From Scotland
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Shirrif
Posts: 1932

Could I ask everyone to examine their 1977 dummy Silmarillion(s)? I'm looking for confirmation of a few points. Many of these probably go hand-in-hand, so the combinations likely are probably small.

Printer
Presumably Clowes. Anyone got a Billing copy?

Binding
Probably cloth. Any paper covered boards?

Jacket
Probably unpriced. Anyone have a priced dj?

Printed Pages
Up to pg. 32, or pg. 35. Anyone have anything else?

Publisher's Imprint
May state London/George Allen & Unwin Ltd/Ruskin House Museum Street. May state London/George Allen & Unwin/Boston Sydney. Or perhaps something else.

ISBN
Is the full ISBN present, or just (the publisher's prefix) 0 04

Chapters (Contents pg.)
How many are stated: 23 or 24 chapters?

[Beren, I realise you have an entirely blank dummy. None of the above really applies should you be reading this.]

Any information appreciated.

BH
_________________
BH

You drive a hard bargain – you can have it for £10 all-in – one consolation (for you) is that you do not have to hear the cries of my children, for bread...


By laurel

Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Oct 31, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Oct 30, 2009
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Posts: 517

Sorry do not own a salesman copy. I have been after a reasonable priced one for a while so if you have one for sale cheap I could buy it and then reply to your thread :)
_________________


By Deagol

Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Oct 31, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Jun 4, 2006
From UK
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Posts: 437

I did mean to check my copy this weekend, but had a bit of a nightmare and it totally went out of my mind. Will try to check tomorrow.
_________________
TolkienBooks.net - An Illustrated Tolkien Bibliography
SFandFantasy.co.uk - A Science Fiction and Fantasy Bibliography


By Dior

Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 1, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Jun 7, 2006
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Posts: 133

Hi Khamul,

Herre are the details of my copy:

Printer: Clowes
Binding: Cloth
Durst jacket: priced; £4.95.
Printed: up to page 32
Publisher's imprint: London/George Allen & Unwin Ltd/Boston Sydney.
ISBN: 0048231398
Chapters: 24


Hope this helps
Feel free t oask any other questions

Dior


Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 1, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
From Scotland
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Shirrif
Posts: 1932

Get on with it Deagol! (Thanks Dior.)

This is slightly off topic, in my own topic...but, I think the black & white view of export/domestic, in respect to distribution, is decidedly grey; or at least the characteristics that books manifest which supposedly represent these two markets.

Clowes clearly produced priced jackets for their "2nd impression" (so marked); these were clearly, like all impressions, physically produced before publication day. So, any Clowes copy turning up with a priced jacket is hardly surprising; & to add to this, not, as seems assumed (there are several “mixed issue” copies listed on ABE), a later marriage of book & dj that did not originally belong together; switching by owners, or by the publisher. While the latter is possible, and shouldn't be ruled out, I think the Billing dj is purple enough to be distinguishable from most Clowes djs --if this subtle difference can be any distinguishing characteristic at all.

In this case (with dummy copies), it might be assumed, that we must be quite early in the pre-publication process. I always wonder: when these dummy copies were produced how close was the full text to the final publication text? I always guessed that the text was fully complete & that perhaps just the index was being finalised.

Either way, in terms of the books physical make-up, the dummy copies must represent the publisher’s view of the finished product; or at least a very close representation. Clowes must have produced priced djs at this time; or at least priced dummy copies suggest they did. I guess this is not surprising as these would all be mock-ups for UK booksellers & therefore a priced dj would be expected; you could argue an unpriced dj less so.

Recently I bought a review copy given to someone in the UK at, or around, publication time. Unfortunately exactly when this was distributed is unclear. But, supporting what was said above, this was a priced Clowes copy. Again, it was suggested to me, that this copy probably had a priced dj “put on to it” i.e. the original unpriced jacket was removed. But this seems highly unlikely given the evidence from the seller (the original recipient) & the dark blue shade of the dj.

Anyway, my convoluted point is this. Yes, Clowes were probably physically producing their copies chronologically first (after all, Billing copies are printed by “offset lithography” --from the Clowes pages I always assumed...), but factors like whether the dj is priced, the binding is cloth, top page edges are dyed blue, headbands are present etc --are not necessarily factors that help determine whether a particular copy is a “true” (terminology commonly used) ‘Export’ 1st impression or not. There are many, many variants out there. Although, having said this, if there are any radically variant Billing copies out there --I haven’t seen any.

BH
_________________
BH

You drive a hard bargain – you can have it for £10 all-in – one consolation (for you) is that you do not have to hear the cries of my children, for bread...


Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 1, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Jun 6, 2006
From Essex, England
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Shirrif
Posts: 2324



Anyway, my convoluted point is this. Yes, Clowes were probably physically producing their copies chronologically first (after all, Billing copies are printed by “offset lithography” --from the Clowes pages I always assumed...), but factors like whether the dj is priced, the binding is cloth, top page edges are dyed blue, headbands are present etc --are not necessarily factors that help determine whether a particular copy is a “true” (terminology commonly used) ‘Export’ 1st impression or not. There are many, many variants out there. Although, having said this, if there are any radically variant Billing copies out there --I haven’t seen any.

BH


But there is a difference in printing for the Clowes 1/1st, as discussed quite a lot before, the Billings copies are from the first Clowes printing.

http://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/n ... ost_id=3472#forumpost3472


Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 1, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
From Scotland
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Shirrif
Posts: 1932

For heaven’s sake Trotter!, I know what the bibliographical (in the purest sense of the word i.e. the printed pages only) variation is. What I’m trying to say is that the characteristics that are often inextricably linked (I, for one, used to think they went hand-in-hand; other comments suggest others think so too) to the two Clowes printing variants...

i.e.
Clowes 1st State
Both errors + cloth boards + headbands + dyed top page edges + unpriced dj
Clowes 2nd State
One error [Ulmo corrected] + paper boards + no headbands + no dyed edges + unpriced dj

--are not linked.

I have a Clowes 1st state copy meeting all of the above points except the boards are paper covered, & it has a priced dj. So all I was basically trying to say was, if you’re searching for a Clowes 1st state & you cannot get the seller to confirm the presence or absence of the errors (sometimes tricky) --the other characteristics on their own are not a guide to the state of the sheets. E.g. if you come across a paper covered Clowes it isn’t necessarily the 2nd state.

BH
_________________
BH

You drive a hard bargain – you can have it for £10 all-in – one consolation (for you) is that you do not have to hear the cries of my children, for bread...


By Deagol

Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 2, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Jun 4, 2006
From UK
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Posts: 437

Khamul - patience precious.....
_________________
TolkienBooks.net - An Illustrated Tolkien Bibliography
SFandFantasy.co.uk - A Science Fiction and Fantasy Bibliography


Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 2, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
From Scotland
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Shirrif
Posts: 1932

It was a genuine " For heaven's sake Trotter! "...

BH
_________________
BH

You drive a hard bargain – you can have it for £10 all-in – one consolation (for you) is that you do not have to hear the cries of my children, for bread...


By Deagol

Re: Dummy SILMARILLION variations...

Nov 6, 2010 - in Research Questions
Joined:
Jun 4, 2006
From UK
Group:
Shirefolk
Fellowship
Posts: 437

Printer - Clowes

Binding - Cloth

Jacket - Unpriced

Printed Pages - Up to pg. 32

Publisher's Imprint - London/George Allen & Unwin/Boston Sydney

ISBN - Full ISBN present

Chapters - 24

My copy include an A&U letter dated 22/08/1977 if that helps.
_________________
TolkienBooks.net - An Illustrated Tolkien Bibliography
SFandFantasy.co.uk - A Science Fiction and Fantasy Bibliography



(1) 2
All original content © 2018 by the submitting authors. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Contact Us