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Antiques Roadshow Sunday April 25th 7pm BBC1

Apr 25, 2021 (edited)
2021/4/25 6:01:18 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

The team is in sunny-then-rainy north Wales at the lushly beautiful, National Trust-owned Bodnant Garden, where experts examine an eclectic treasure trove of finds.

A gentleman brings along a treasured and delightful letter from JRR Tolkien, written to him after, as a 14-year-old, he’d sent the Lord of the Rings author fan mail. It’s “precious” in more ways than one.

Elsewhere, there is a pipe inscribed by its owner during a spell as a prisoner of war in Italy and Germany after he was captured at Tobruk. And there is what an expert describes as a “silent witness” to history, a soup ladle found after a dive to a wrecked steam clipper.

For those in the UK you can watch it at 7pm tonight or on the BBC iPlayer at 55 minutes into the programme. The letter was valued at £10,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000vlsp

10_608505a147fe9.jpg 1052X615 px
Apr 25, 2021
2021/4/25 6:34:20 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
The Hobbit looks to be later than a first-edition, interesting to see if it is signed. The manuscript letter looks very interesting, should be quite a high valuation from the expert Clive Farahar https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profi ... KqT8vzYczg4/clive-farahar
Apr 26, 2021 (edited)
2021/4/26 5:42:46 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Hi Trotter!
Did you watch the BBC show yesterday? I can't watch it from Italy, apparently.
Could you tell us more, please?

I read on the web the letter ("Dear Charles...") is dated "3 May 1957" and has been valued £10.000 by their expert.
Here a link with two photos of the letter: Link no longer works
Apr 26, 2021
2021/4/26 5:48:39 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Mauro D86 wrote:

Hi Trotter!
Did you watch the BBC show yesterday? I can't watch it from Italy, apparently.
Could you tell us more, please?

Sent you a PM
Dec 21, 2021 (edited)
2021/12/21 4:20:50 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Partial transcription of the letter, I'm not sure about a few words which are replaced by "?":

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your letter. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the "Ring" books.

Your runic letter was correct and readable. But the runes used in *The Hobbit* are not my invention. Just as the language of the time was turned into English, so were the runes of the day. So I used a selection, more or less applicable to modern English spelling, of the runes formerly used by the English in England. Owing to the ? of the Latin letter the runes went out of use, were never in fact used for writing books except the two letters borrowed from the Runic Alphabet and used in writing *English*: ᚦ and ᚹ, written forms þ and ƿ ( ? from ƿ =p ). þ was used for *th*, -- or rather, represented the *sounds* we shall have in *thin*, *this*, until it was replaced by *th* in the 14th. century. It lingered on ( broken down in shape to y, [two more cursive variants]) in the abbreviations *yͤ* *yͭ* = *the*, *that*, of [continued on the back page]

[half page not shown]
not the z in their own language, except occasionally for *ts* (? German).

Variant signs occur which seem to be used for *x* (=ks): among them Ψ.

Of course the Runes were properly used to spell by *sound* and they do not fit modern English very well. The *Angerthas* at the end of Vol iii will give you plenty of signs for all the sounds of English, and more -- or for the letters and most common ? ?, if you care to ? them.

Yours sincerely

J.R.R.Tolkien

For Charles's letter, see https://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/n ... ewtopic.php?topic_id=4312
Dec 21, 2021
2021/12/21 5:21:50 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Various members help transcribe the letter in April after the programme was broadcast. These are the words that you have a ? for.

Owing to the competition of the Latin letter the runes went out of use.

( distinct from ƿ =p )

-- or for the letters and most common letter-combinations, if you can rearrange them
Dec 21, 2021
2021/12/21 8:22:16 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

Various members help transcribe the letter in April after the programme was broadcast. These are the words that you have a ? for.

Owing to the competition of the Latin letter the runes went out of use.

( distinct from ƿ =p )

-- or for the letters and most common letter-combinations, if you can rearrange them

Great, thanks! Do you also recognize the words in "(? and(?) German)" ?

Also the last sentence looks like "if you care to rearrange them" to me.
Dec 21, 2021
2021/12/21 12:02:52 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

Various members help transcribe the letter in April

Where is this transcription?

zionius wrote:

Great, thanks! Do you also recognize the words in "(? and(?) German)" ?

The word before “German” is “mod.” (modern German).

zionius wrote:

Also the last sentence looks like "if you care to rearrange them" to me.

Without a doubt, yes.
Dec 21, 2021
2021/12/21 12:55:35 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Also, a few minor corrections, in bold:

zionius wrote:

Owing to the ? of the Latin letter the runes went out of use, were never in fact used for writing books

Latin letters

went out of use, & were never

zionius wrote:

It lingered on ( broken down in shape to y, [two more cursive variants]) in the abbreviations *yͤ* *yͭ* = *the*, *that*, of

I don’t know what the last word on this page is, but not “of”.

zionius wrote:


Of course the Runes were properly used to spell by *sound* and they do not fit modern English very well.

, and they do not fit mod. English spelling very well
Dec 21, 2021
2021/12/21 13:30:23 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Side 1: last word is "which"

Side 2: "Various signs" (not "Variant signs")
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