Aelfwine wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth, Khamûl. I said precisely nothing about "quality of the books". I was responding rather to the claim that "'I'm somewhat relieved people are seeing through this. I think it helps that it clearly isn't actually possible to produce a "Silmarillion Illustrated by the Author" that isn't a cash grab." Please read what I wrote, and respond to what I said. Thanks.
It wasn't really that clear who the "you" in your original post was referring to, Aelfwine.
Further, if the essentials of this forum boil down to buy or "don't buy", then this forum is dead.
I'm still a bit disappointed nobody has gone to their shelves to report on sagging page-blocks though...
Khamûl wrote:
I don't understand the dominance of this mercenary attitude. Not everyone thinks like this or wants to live in a world where everything is a busniess decision. I don't think Stanley or Rayner Unwin thought the only job of their publishing firm was to make money. Different times, I know; and not really saying there is anything wrong or unusual with the HarperCollins approach to publishing Tolkien. I also don't think (while being perfectly interested in the sales of his father's work) Christopher Tolkien was particularly motivated by money & keeping his publisher happy. Would just like to see... some better made books, occasionally.
I think you have expressed a sentiment here that a lot of us who engage in these forums would like to see at least some of the time, a really well made high quality book series whether it be limited/numbered or not. It's been my experience, which is probably also fairly obvious to y'all, that most don't really know what the differences are between a fine binding book and a book that just has the semblance of being a fine binding (like the HC deluxe series of the past few years or so)
This lack of knowledge is what I was referring to earlier when I talked about what the early opinions are on social media about the release. HarperCollins must have made a decision that producing fine books just isn't worth it, which is a real shame. I agree that not everything is about money and we here have sentimental attachments to this material that HarperCollins may not have. That is the main reason why I would like to see more fine WELL MADE Tolkien book releases coming out that just don't ever seem to appear.
The lack of knowledge by many of what really is a good product in terms of a book is one of the reasons why I try to publicize this site everywhere I can so consumers of Tolkien might be more selective and demand better products in the future, or at least access to higher quality products by learning and benefiting from the knowlege that is exhibited here.
Lots of points flying back and forth here quickly - a good discussion (some heated moments). These are topics that comes up a lot, and will continue to do so. There's no need for a new edition of The Silmarillion, absolutely - it is a marketing ploy to sell more processed dead trees. I happen to often like processed dead trees though, and discussing their merits (or demerits). So here we are!
Topics we seem to be intermingling:
Topics we seem to be intermingling:
- is repackaging existing titles a marketing ploy?
- are modern books sadly falling off in production quality?
- Specifically HarperCollins recently?
- are large page blocks sagging (yes), and how does that make us feel (bad, really bad)?
- will we (individually) be buying this particular edition of The Silmarillion?
Khamûl wrote:
I'm still a bit disappointed nobody has gone to their shelves to report on sagging page-blocks though...
I've got a few of those, new Deluxe LOTR '21, Deluxe HoME set '17 off the top of my head.
- is repackaging existing titles a marketing ploy?
I don't think there's any disagreement here, but I thought it worth noting.
- are modern books sadly falling off in production quality?
Definitely. And I continue to push the Tolkien rights-holders to do a really expensive, high quality production, or license someone to do so. No dice so far.
- Specifically HarperCollins recently?
Absolutely. I think they know this, too, in that I and others have pointed it out, repeatedly. There is a distinction to be made (and discussed if you like), between (a) cost cutting and (b) quality control. I think HarperCollins are doing (a) on purpose because they think that makes the most business sense, but (b) is not intentional and they need to (and, I think, want to) fix.
- are large page blocks sagging (yes), and how does that make us feel (bad, really bad)?
I really, really prefer The Lord of the Rings in three volumes. I hope they will make some deluxe editions in this format again.
- will we (individually) be buying this particular edition of The Silmarillion?
I will, but that's an easy answer because I want to be able to talk about it here from personal experience after release. For my long term collection, I really don't know yet. I will have to see more about it to decide.
Mr. Underhill wrote:
Khamûl wrote:
I'm still a bit disappointed nobody has gone to their shelves to report on sagging page-blocks though...
I've got a few of those, new Deluxe LOTR '21, Deluxe HoME set '17 off the top of my head.
Yeah, those two were the ones that immediately popped into my head. Probably Deluxe HoME being the worst (with Clays being so floppy as to barely be considered "bound").
Khamûl wrote:
I don't understand the dominance of this mercenary attitude. Not everyone thinks like this or wants to live in a world where everything is a busniess decision. I don't think Stanley or Rayner Unwin thought the only job of their publishing firm was to make money. Different times, I know; and not really saying there is anything wrong or unusual with the HarperCollins approach to publishing Tolkien. I also don't think (while being perfectly interested in the sales of his father's work) Christopher Tolkien was particularly motivated by money & keeping his publisher happy. Would just like to see... some better made books, occasionally.
I think this is a really good distinction. The family business mentality of GA&U half a century ago is so far afield from the multinational conglomerate of HarperCollins of today, they really aren't even the same industry it feels like most of the time.
I agree with your thinking about Christopher as well (and probably the whole family). I'm going back to correct my previous post about the relationship between the Estate and HarperCollins, I think I was widely wrong in what I said there earlier.
I also would really like to see some better made books as well. The (vast, vast) majority of book buyers aren't looking for something to last more than a few months or maybe a few years, and that's the market that pretty much everything we see being made is aimed at. I do like buying some really nice independent press books every now and then, and would really love for some Tolkien editions to be made that way again.
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