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24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 17:21:54 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Vanyarin wrote:

.... However, after the publication of The Hobbit, for which artwork had been specially designed and even commissioned, he did not sign his later work, save for the Tree and Leaf cover design, which had again been commissioned, and he only used his initials (see illustration).

A bold statement (what I have put in bold), and yet untrue!
24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 17:25:26 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

Except when he signed The Hobbit dust-jacket, it is what I think the correct way, so I am guessing he changed his mind and GA&U followed The Hobbit style of monogram not the Ishness style.

I may be sleep deprived, sorry - I am not following. Are you saying The Hobbit monogram is not the correct way? "Except X, it was the correct way" reads to me like you are saying X is not correct.

Not to be an argument/rebuttal to your statement, but just a general thought - I will argue in my paper that all of his monograms are "correct", though they differ widely in some interesting ways. He just loved to change his mind 馃榿
24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 17:32:19 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
I am saying that the J being reversed as in The Book of Ishness is not the correct monogram and that it should be as in the monogram on The Hobbit.

He drew it as a normal J on The Hobbit for publication, and it is not reversed as in The Book of Ishness which was not intended for publication.

This is how it is currently used by The Tolkien Estate and Tolkien's publishers, starting with GA&U on books.
24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 17:45:18 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

I am saying that the J being reversed as in The Book of Ishness is not the correct monogram and that it should be as in the monogram on The Hobbit.

A strong position to take! That Tolkien drew his own monogram incorrectly. 馃槈 (I have, with permission and support from the Estate and the Bodleian, high res color scans to work off of).

Trotter wrote:

He drew it as a normal J on The Hobbit for publication, and it is not reversed as in The Book of Ishness which was not intended for publication.

I dispute some of your assumptions here (eventually, when I am ready to publish). You are correct, the detailed monogram on Ishness was not drawn for publication.

Trotter wrote:

This is how it is currently used by The Tolkien Estate and Tolkien's publishers, starting with GA&U on books.

Yes. The Estate and GA&U were working together, and approved the use of the monogram from Pictures and since. I certainly don't think some "aha" moment is going to happen and they decide to put it back the way Tolkien drew it. That ship has long since sailed to the West. I just think there is a lot of interesting background that people will enjoy.
24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 17:56:05 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
I think I will have to agree to disagree at the moment, but what a great subject for an article. Good luck
24 Jul, 2021
2021/7/24 21:37:26 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Looking forward to reading your article, when it is ready, Urul贸k毛. Great topic.
25 Jul, 2021
2021/7/25 9:32:35 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Urul贸k毛 wrote:


Not to be an argument/rebuttal to your statement, but just a general thought - I will argue in my paper that all of his monograms are "correct", though they differ widely in some interesting ways. He just loved to change his mind 馃榿

I think this is the right take. The monogram is like the Silmarillion - a moving feast that at some point in time you pop a stake in the ground and call "done" (but one can also enjoy the story of how it got there in its own thoroughly inconsistent multiverse). I personally consider The Hobbit version to be definitive, 'cos I like The Hobbit jacket.
7 Apr
2023/4/7 14:30:47 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Sorry to raise the topic again, Urul贸k毛 , but I am eager to know if there is any follow-up with your article, I assume it is yet to be finished and published?

Off topic: I realize this was my second post in the forum, when I had only finished LR a month ago, since then it's been a wonderful journey!
8 Apr
2023/4/8 4:48:48 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

zionius wrote:

Sorry to raise the topic again, Urul贸k毛 , but I am eager to know if there is any follow-up with your article, I assume it is yet to be finished and published?

Off topic: I realize this was my second post in the forum, when I had only finished LR a month ago, since then it's been a wonderful journey!

You are correct - still to be finished and published. 馃槄

Glad to have you here on the forums!
8 Apr
2023/4/8 6:09:57 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Thanks, look forward to it!
And glad to be here with you all!
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