The Lord of the Rings
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Tolkien Collector's Guide
Jul 24
2021/7/24 17:21:54 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Vanyarin wrote:

.... However, after the publication of The Hobbit, for which artwork had been specially designed and even commissioned, he did not sign his later work, save for the Tree and Leaf cover design, which had again been commissioned, and he only used his initials (see illustration).

A bold statement (what I have put in bold), and yet untrue!
Jul 24
2021/7/24 17:25:26 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

Except when he signed The Hobbit dust-jacket, it is what I think the correct way, so I am guessing he changed his mind and GA&U followed The Hobbit style of monogram not the Ishness style.

I may be sleep deprived, sorry - I am not following. Are you saying The Hobbit monogram is not the correct way? "Except X, it was the correct way" reads to me like you are saying X is not correct.

Not to be an argument/rebuttal to your statement, but just a general thought - I will argue in my paper that all of his monograms are "correct", though they differ widely in some interesting ways. He just loved to change his mind 😁
Jul 24
2021/7/24 17:32:19 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
I am saying that the J being reversed as in The Book of Ishness is not the correct monogram and that it should be as in the monogram on The Hobbit.

He drew it as a normal J on The Hobbit for publication, and it is not reversed as in The Book of Ishness which was not intended for publication.

This is how it is currently used by The Tolkien Estate and Tolkien's publishers, starting with GA&U on books.
Jul 24
2021/7/24 17:45:18 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Trotter wrote:

I am saying that the J being reversed as in The Book of Ishness is not the correct monogram and that it should be as in the monogram on The Hobbit.

A strong position to take! That Tolkien drew his own monogram incorrectly. 😉 (I have, with permission and support from the Estate and the Bodleian, high res color scans to work off of).

Trotter wrote:

He drew it as a normal J on The Hobbit for publication, and it is not reversed as in The Book of Ishness which was not intended for publication.

I dispute some of your assumptions here (eventually, when I am ready to publish). You are correct, the detailed monogram on Ishness was not drawn for publication.

Trotter wrote:

This is how it is currently used by The Tolkien Estate and Tolkien's publishers, starting with GA&U on books.

Yes. The Estate and GA&U were working together, and approved the use of the monogram from Pictures and since. I certainly don't think some "aha" moment is going to happen and they decide to put it back the way Tolkien drew it. That ship has long since sailed to the West. I just think there is a lot of interesting background that people will enjoy.
Jul 24
2021/7/24 17:56:05 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
I think I will have to agree to disagree at the moment, but what a great subject for an article. Good luck
Jul 24
2021/7/24 21:37:26 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia
Looking forward to reading your article, when it is ready, Urulókë. Great topic.
Jul 25
2021/7/25 9:32:35 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time, London, Dublin, Lisbon, Casablanca, Monrovia

Urulókë wrote:


Not to be an argument/rebuttal to your statement, but just a general thought - I will argue in my paper that all of his monograms are "correct", though they differ widely in some interesting ways. He just loved to change his mind 😁

I think this is the right take. The monogram is like the Silmarillion - a moving feast that at some point in time you pop a stake in the ground and call "done" (but one can also enjoy the story of how it got there in its own thoroughly inconsistent multiverse). I personally consider The Hobbit version to be definitive, 'cos I like The Hobbit jacket.
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