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16 Dec, 2022 (edited)
2022-12-16 6:45:37 PM UTC

Mr. Underhill wrote:

This is a collector's website and this is a place to express frustration with printing issues regarding new releases from HC. We have and have had no issue with that. We feel it is important to have an accurate record of the QC issues that have been plaguing HarperCollins as of late and IF the new product has issues we can discuss them when those issues are actually in front of us.

I would also like to remind all members that we have a pretty firm policy against speculation without concrete evidence, as it is not helpful to collecting Tolkien books or other items in anyway. I would encourage everyone to hold off on speculating about future releases until there is something to go on.

This really doesn't fall under the speculation rules (as previously applied), I don't think. This is just discussion about what has been announced for a future offering and whether people think that is a good idea (and if not, why not). If people can't say "I don't think a CD is a good idea -- and here is why", this isn't a collector's site any more.

Producing a CD is probably pretty cheap and even if it doesn'r affect production meaningfully, I still think it makes an item created for the long-term pointlessly dated out of the gate. At this stage of the life-cycle of the CD, It is like a Father Christmas letters with a compact cassette was when that came out.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:05:29 PM UTC

Stu wrote:


This really doesn't fall under the speculation rules (as previously applied), I don't think. This is just discussion about what has been announced for a future offering and whether people think that is a good idea (and if not, why not). If people can't say "I don't think a CD is a good idea -- and here is why", this isn't a collector's site any more.

The reminder isn't directed at any one member or specific member comment, just a reminder to stick to what we know about future releases and to try our best to keep our comments evidence based under the speculation rules, as we are a guide website that people come to for useful information on Tolkien collecting.

Of course every member is free to make their opinions known on here and those opinions are welcome regardless of who agrees and or disagrees with them.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:15:23 PM UTC

Stu wrote:


Producing a CD is probably pretty cheap

Based on some quick research this morning, looking at bulk CD manufacturing business sites, it's probably costing HC $1.50 to $2.50 each to produce the CD's depending on packaging specifics and bulk size.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:24:20 PM UTC

Mr. Underhill wrote:

Stu wrote:


Producing a CD is probably pretty cheap

Based on some quick research this morning, looking at bulk CD manufacturing business sites, it's probably costing HC $1.50 to $2.50 each to produce the CD's depending on packaging specifics and bulk size.

Sounds about right, after asking a friend who works in the music industry recently it appears an average figure is a couple of dollars all in so if the CD in the deluxe is a plastic case loose I'd imagine it's the lower end. Then the rights and remastering also add a cost that has to be accounted for.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:27:43 PM UTC

Stu wrote:

Personally I think a CD is a ridiculous anachronism.

Crazy day(s) for me but I wanted to touch on this point quickly before I forget...

As a collector of audio materials that are Tolkien related, I strongly feel it is important for there to be official physical releases (in some format), not just licensed digital files through streaming services that can yank your "license" at any time (you don't own your Audible books, you just have the right to play it, for now - they can revoke that right at any time and remove it from your library).

Unless companies are going to start shipping branded USB thumb drives (I'd buy that!), CDs are still by far the most economical and widely used physical audio format. I don't want an LP vinyl release of an audio book, that makes no sense from a playback perspective.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:31:31 PM UTC

onthetrail wrote:

Sounds about right, after asking a friend who works in the music industry recently it appears an average figure is a couple of dollars all in so if the CD in the deluxe is a plastic case loose I'd imagine it's the lower end. Then the rights and remastering also add a cost that has to be accounted for.

I'll be shocked if it is in a plastic tray - a slim cardboard sleeve seems like a better approach - can tuck in the slipcase like the folded maps in other recent editions, for example.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:34:27 PM UTC

Urulókë wrote:

Stu wrote:

Personally I think a CD is a ridiculous anachronism.

Crazy day(s) for me but I wanted to touch on this point quickly before I forget...

As a collector of audio materials that are Tolkien related, I strongly feel it is important for there to be official physical releases (in some format), not just licensed digital files through streaming services that can yank your "license" at any time (you don't own your Audible books, you just have the right to play it, for now - they can revoke that right at any time and remove it from your library).

Unless companies are going to start shipping branded USB thumb drives (I'd buy that!), CDs are still by far the most economical and widely used physical audio format. I don't want an LP vinyl release of an audio book, that makes no sense from a playback perspective.

I'd very much support a thumb-drive as most people listen to music devices rather than CD players.

Worth noting that by the end of this year more people will be buying vinyl than CDs, but I do agree that in the audio book setting a vinyl would not be suitable.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:37:52 PM UTC

Urulókë wrote:

onthetrail wrote:

Sounds about right, after asking a friend who works in the music industry recently it appears an average figure is a couple of dollars all in so if the CD in the deluxe is a plastic case loose I'd imagine it's the lower end. Then the rights and remastering also add a cost that has to be accounted for.

I'll be shocked if it is in a plastic tray - a slim cardboard sleeve seems like a better approach - can tuck in the slipcase like the folded maps in other recent editions, for example.

I agree, I said case by mistake and meant folder. The flimsy type. It will almost certainly be a plastic or card folder that can then fit in the book. And as it has a standalone release which I assume will be a standard jewel case it would make sense.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:42:41 PM UTC

Urulókë wrote:

Stu wrote:

Personally I think a CD is a ridiculous anachronism.

Crazy day(s) for me but I wanted to touch on this point quickly before I forget...

As a collector of audio materials that are Tolkien related, I strongly feel it is important for there to be official physical releases (in some format), not just licensed digital files through streaming services that can yank your "license" at any time (you don't own your Audible books, you just have the right to play it, for now - they can revoke that right at any time and remove it from your library).

Unless companies are going to start shipping branded USB thumb drives (I'd buy that!), CDs are still by far the most economical and widely used physical audio format. I don't want an LP vinyl release of an audio book, that makes no sense from a playback perspective.

I don't disagree - I just don't want something that dates so badly shoehorned into a package with a book (really just as a product differentiator). Make the product differentiate itself by being.... better than the trade!

I think an individual CD release is just fine. It is the merging of paper and plastic that doesn't work for me.
16 Dec, 2022
2022-12-16 7:49:58 PM UTC

onthetrail wrote:

HarperCollins now have a track-record of publishing poor books...

Don't have time (yet) for a lengthy thought piece on this opinion, but at a high level - a quick scan of Hammond's Bibliography will show that Tolkien books from the 1930s and onward had quality control issues, poor editing, "cost saving" material choices, and other issues that people somehow seem surprised that HarperCollins is suddenly suffering from. There have been complaints about Folio and Eason Press quality control issues. Super Deluxe editions from decades ago have some complaints lodged against some copies. This isn't a new problem, or one that will go away. Books are mass produced for consumption - making perfection for collectors such as us is not the goal (even with the deluxe line), and has never stopped "us" (not thinking of anyone in particular) from desiring copies of books that are at the bottom of the quality barrel - take Ace paperbacks or the Millenium seven volume boxed set for top of mind examples.

It is totally fine to not like the quality of recent releases, and to predict that forthcoming releases might follow similarly. Your opinions about the books (quality and content) is welcome here. I would like to ask that the specific "HarperCollins bashing" be toned down, as it is an industry-wide issue, and has been as long as Tolkien books have been in print.

I spent a day in a local new book store a few weeks ago. The new hardcover books across all categories looked and felt cheap. This isn't a Tolkien (or HarperCollins) trend we are experiencing, I don't feel.
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