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9 Jan, 2023
2023-1-9 12:32:17 AM UTC
I had sent a query in to the Saint Louis University already, but haven't heard back. Fingers crossed.

The "preserved leaf" is in Tolkien's personal papers - presumably in the Bodleian archives now, and that John and Wayne/Christina have seen. If I had to guess, the Estate didn't give permission for the full six stanzas to be printed in John's book - easy enough to ask him next time we talk.
9 Jan, 2023
2023-1-9 1:50:47 AM UTC

Urulókë wrote:

I had sent a query in to the Saint Louis University already, but haven't heard back. Fingers crossed.

I could go there physically and see when I’m back in the area in about a week.
9 Jan, 2023
2023-1-9 8:31:43 AM UTC

oxonianus wrote:

For The University Catholic Review, the Saint Louis University Pius Library lists in its holdings v.1(1927–1928)–3(1929–1930) with the call number LC461 .U55 v.1–3 1927–1930. Balliol College, Oxford, has vol. 1 no. 3 (1928?), but that's probably too late. Radbound University in Nijmegen, The Netherlands, shows vol. 1 (1927) – vol. 3 (1929) at call number Tz c 1783 in the Gymnasion. So, it looks like the St Louis University and Radbound University—according to Worldcat—have the only two potential copies. Most libraries provide copy services, sometimes free up to a certain page amount, sometimes for a reasonable charge.

It would probably be a good idea to check those, either to find the poems or to determine that they aren't in the The University Catholic Review. It's entirely possible that Tolkien submitted the poems to the editor(s) of the The Inter-University Magazine, and the name of the journal changed before they were published.

Thank you, oxonianus.
I have sent a request to the library of Radboud Universiteit.
9 Jan, 2023
2023-1-9 12:44:24 PM UTC
You're welcome! I hope you find the poems. That will especially help those who write on Tolkien's publishinh history.
9 Jan, 2023
2023-1-9 9:11:13 PM UTC
Here the first reply I received from the Radboud Universiteit library: "We can't fulfil your request. You can come to the library yourself to request the magazine. You can make the scan by yourself". So I replied that I'm in Italy... "You can contact the local or university library in your area. They can request the scans for you via the ILL (Inter Library Loan) by our library. Cost is 13,00 euro. However, we prefer payment by IFLA vouchers, in which case it would be 1,5 vouchers."
10 Jan, 2023 (edited)
2023-1-10 3:40:37 PM UTC
I remember reading in a snippet of an issue of the catholic historical review on jstor, but I can't find it right now, that the magazine should have changed name (they explained the reason of the change) at the end of 1927, with the start of the new academic year, so the above might not be the issue we are looking for, it's better to be sure before paying.
10 Jan, 2023
2023-1-10 5:35:22 PM UTC
I work at Radboud University and have access to the library. So I am happy to request the issues and have a look at them later this week.
10 Jan, 2023
2023-1-10 6:07:34 PM UTC
the Saint Louis Library Reference Librarian was kind enough to check for me (us). I asked for the first issue (Vol 1, 1927) of The University Catholic Review, but he went ahead and checked all issues in their archive.

I have checked the 3 issues for vol. 1 (1927-28) and did not find the poems you named. For what it's worth, I'm listing the poems which do appear.

vol. 1:1 Earth Christian by Wilfred Childe (p. 20) and Up From the Sea by Evan Morgan (p. 25)

vol. 1:2 Guidance by Charles G. Mortimer (p. 51), The Star-Gazers by C. C. Martindale (p. 59) and Inspiration also by Mortimer (p. 62)

vol. 1:3 Beauty by Charles G. Mortimer (p. 89) and Revertere Sulamitis by C. C. Martindale (p. 101)

Just to make sure, I checked the vols. 2-3 issues and did not find the poems there either.

This confirms what Wayne and Christina have already said, namely

Tinfang Warble is on p. 63 of its issue, and The Grey Bridge of Tavrobel is on p. 82, as we know from the preserved leaves.... We can also reasonably suppose that Tinfang Warble, at least, was not published after vol. 8, no. 2, in the first part of 1927, due to a reference in the text of the preserved leaf to ‘I.U.M.’, thus the publication was still the Inter-University Magazine and not the University Catholic Review.
(source: ... nter-university-magazine/ )
10 Jan, 2023
2023-1-10 7:51:46 PM UTC

Poort wrote:

I work at Radboud University and have access to the library. So I am happy to request the issues and have a look at them later this week.

If you get a chance can you look at all the issues from 1925 to 1927 and in each issue check page 63 and page 82?
10 Jan, 2023
2023-1-10 9:39:14 PM UTC
That's good to know about The University Catholic Review *not* containing the poems. Unfortunately, we're back to the former issue: no libraries in Worldcat show a copy of The Inter-University Magazine vol. 8 no. 2 amongst their holdings. The University Catholic Societies Federation became the University Catholic Federation of Great Britain, and the papers of that society are at Durham University, described here. No copies of the Inter-University Magazine are listed amongst the papers or in the library catalogue; the papers are an administrative archive (meeting minutes, budgets, etc). I wonder if they could be in the old Pusey House library in Oxford? I don't think everything there is catalogued in SOLO (Oxford's general library catalogue). The Durham description of the society's papers mention they'd formerly been included in the Newman Association Archive stored at the Scottish Catholic Archives in Edinburgh. The only mention of The Inter-University Magazine there is in the description of a "Letter from the Archbishop of Westminster, sending a few words for the second number of the Catholic inter-university Magazine' (Ref. no. ABSI/SJ/80/2/9/18). But there is a lot of Newman stuff in the Pusey House library, and plenty of older publications which should be indexed in the card catalogue—a real card catalogue. Keep hunting!
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