Edited by Trotter on 2022-10-28 5:11:46 PM UTC Edited by Urulókë on 2022-10-28 5:14:03 PM UTC
2022-10-28 4:20:40 PM UTC
The team at Tolkien Collector's Guide sit down to talk with Dr. Tom Shippey about his new book, "Beowulf and the North Before the Vikings" and lots of related Tolkien topics - a very wide ranging conversation from an expert in these fields!
There are chapter links in the video description so you can jump around to the (20 or more!) topics we ended up covering in almost 90 minutes.
As Dr. Shippey would say, that was bloody fantastic.
I'd like to add something about what Tom said about the Mexican volcano. I first learned of the Winter of 536 from our school history teacher who brought me to Beowulf and spent a lot of time talking with me about it. He had, I think, loved the fact taht one of his pupils had latched onto something he himself was fascinated by.
So anyway, we were having a passionate debate and we got onto the subject of why we thought the poem existed at all. Naturally this was a speculative conversation and wasn't intended to be anything more than a bit of fun. So we could come up with our wildest theories. My own, and something my own head 'lore' has never quite left me, was the idea that the poem was a weapon of sorts. A weapon of words, used when the skies were blackened and the threat of invasion for resources was almost guaranteed. So spreading a really wild story might keep others away if they could be duped into believing it. As I say, totally unsupported and meant to stimulate conversations between my teacher and I.
On that, I'd love to hear what others have as wild theories, or serious ones if preferred.
I don't have one of my own right now (my mind is crowded with what Dr. Shippey said). I find it really interesting how the poem goes back and forth between political/historical and the fantastical beats. It feels like the intention is to carry important (but dry) information along by continually jolting the listener (reader) with adrenaline. Like occasionally watching movies in history class ?
Great points Uruloke. Some of the points made in the video were excellent. Well all of them were. I could listen to him talk all day on Beowulf and that period of history.
I can't read Dr. Shippey's new book yet unfortunately as when I was about to buy it I was told not to. So I have to wait until over Christmas.
Edited by Mr. Underhill on 2022-10-28 9:27:11 PM UTC
2022-10-28 8:57:41 PM UTC
Urulókë wrote:
Love your wild theory!
I don't have one of my own right now (my mind is crowded with what Dr. Shippey said). I find it really interesting how the poem goes back and forth between political/historical and the fantastical beats. It feels like the intention is to carry important (but dry) information along by continually jolting the listener (reader) with adrenaline. Like occasionally watching movies in history class ?
Yes, those are both interesting ways to think about the poem. One of the things that I was most interested to hear Dr. Shippey discuss was about how Tolkien thought about it, and how his line of thinking evolved over time. Was really interesting to him on that subject.
I don't have one of my own right now (my mind is crowded with what Dr. Shippey said). I find it really interesting how the poem goes back and forth between political/historical and the fantastical beats. It feels like the intention is to carry important (but dry) information along by continually jolting the listener (reader) with adrenaline. Like occasionally watching movies in history class ?
Yes, those are both interesting ways to think about the poem. One of the things that I was most interested to hear Dr. Shippey discuss was about how Tolkien thought about it, and how his line of thinking evolved over time. Was really interesting to him on that subject.
I like his point about the timing of THE Hobbit and his Beowulf speech. There's no getting away from the proximity of them.
It's difficult for me to talk too openly at the moment on Beowulf as I have been aiding a friend with his latest book on the subject and Shippey has a central role to play in my friends arguments. It wouldn't be right to mention them publicly but once it is published I will come back to the thread with some further thoughts. And hopefully you guys could have him on for a video. I will speak to Jeremy about that privately in the coming weeks hopefully.
Well been thinking alot about Beowulf and the winter of 2010-2011 after Shippeys wonderful stream of thought. Beowulf to me is first and foremost a big reveal of how mythology comes to be. The volcanic winter of 535-536 might very well be THE Fimbulsvinter, but such a weather event is not enough to leave mythic imprint imho. Scandinavia is incredibly blessed climatewise (thanks to a fortunate conspiracy of oceanic currents and the placement of Greenland). Where I live in central Norway we still have temperate broadleaves like oak and elm and we have wheatfields and barleyfields. At the same lattitude in North-America there is no chance of any oakwoods or wheatfields. Normally in Trondheim Winter arrives in december and departs in late february with even the coldest month of january hovering around 0 degrees celsius on average. But we are still right on the edge because we are so far north. Once every 30 years or so something comes along like the winter of 2010-2011 which started with a huge snowfall october 20th and ended in april....with temperatures down to -25 celsius even in Trondheim. The fear of these sorts of winters must have been with scandinavians all the time in the dark ages. That combined with a global weather event like a volcanic winter would be ideal fuel for a 'mythic event' to come about in scandinavia. It's like how the events behind various atlantis myths made a particular psychological impact on cultures living on the rim of the Great Ocean. But very different from Atlantis or the flood of the Bible, the Beowulf poet lived close enough in time with the events for us to see this layering of real events we can date with layers of the fantastic. More than any particular events in the poem itself I suspect the process of myth coming to be fascinated Tolkien.
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